Old Warrior

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Old Warrior

Postby max orsi » Sat Dec 12, 2009 2:44 pm

My old worrior "Maco" Asta van joefarm.

FRIII Face attack with 5 crushed vertebraes. Palm Springs Fl 2005

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iuFIIipd54

And Getting a piece of the second decoy, in the same trial.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bh7aKryq2co

Max
Canem que latra non mordet
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Re: Old Warrior

Postby Stew » Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:35 am

What kind of idiot trials a dog with 5 crushed vertebrae????
Stew
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Re: Old Warrior

Postby max orsi » Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:26 am

Apparently this idiot, who trusted a bunch of other idiots (veterinarians) who kept saying he had a shoulder inflamation.

Thanks for your concern, the dog is now 10 Y/O and still doing very well, he has not trialed since it was diagnosed with his problem.

Happy training

Max
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Re: Old Warrior

Postby Stew » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:29 am

I have seen people intentionally trial dogs with everything from torn CCL's to FCE's and ruptured disks, and IMO if someone intentionally trials a dog that is medically fragile then that individual has questionable common sense at best. Unfortunately the dog often pays physically, mentally, emotionally and sometimes with their life. If you caption a video posted to a discussion, "bragging"
FRIII Face attack with 5 crushed vertebraes. Palm Springs Fl 2005
I'm pretty sure the perception is that you intentionally trialed the dog that way. Many districts, municipalities, even countries just look for a reason to outlaw the sports we play or worse the breeds we love. Posting video with captions like that plays into the wrong perception the public has, that people that teach their dogs to do those things do so with complete disregard for their animals safety or well being. If you unknowingly trialed your dog with 5 crushed vertebrae then the statement doesn't apply...if you did then it does. However, being one of the "other" idiots, if you had come to me even with a dog I suspected of shoulder inflammation severe enough to result in motor, motion, neurological deficits etc, I would have advised against taking that dog to trial... Incidentally, it is great that he is enjoying his senior years and is doing well!
Stew
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Re: Old Warrior

Postby max orsi » Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:06 am

Would you tell me, by looking at that video, not to trial my dog? Would you say he was injured?

The only simptom he was showing was that he would not do the jumps, I believed to be a training issue, because as it showes in the video, he had no problems biting or running.

5 of the other idiots, who were more concerned about taking new X-Rays of his hips spine and Shoulders, like the other vets X-ray before were not good enough, could not find anything wrong then...

...one day I went to MI state University, and the vet just by looking at the dog walking, He was scratching the rear nails on the ground when pulling the rear legs forward, told me that my dog had spinal injuries, he then proceded to measure the space in between the vertebraes to pin point the exact location, using the previous idiots X-Rays.

The moral of the story is:

Make sure to have your brain turned on and have enough information before you change the air in your mouth.

Hopefully you are going to be a better educated idiot of the ones I trusted, for the sake of your clients dogs and your own.

Happy training

Max Orsi
Canem que latra non mordet
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Posts: 19
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Re: Old Warrior

Postby Stew » Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:16 am

Make sure to have your brain turned on and have enough information before you change the air in your mouth.

I guess this works both ways...If you are going to post videos of your dog working with the caption "FRIII Face attack with 5 crushed vertebrae" then you are going to open yourself up to question and/or ridicule. So, let me see if I have gleaned the right information from the limited amount you have provided... You state that the only symptom your dog displayed was for refusing to jump. You felt that it was a training issue, yet you sought the advise of 5 veterinarians...(I don't know about the other idiots but I, like the one from MISU start all my lameness/orthopaedic exams with evaluating the dog/horse's stance and gait walking and trotting). Low and behold another symptom of dragging/scuffing the back nails was observed. Now maybe I spent to many years on the farm, and maybe you didn't, cuz even before becoming a vet I knew if a horse or dog was dragging/scuffing ANY feet/toes in a consistent manner, there was a problem...we didn't throw that dog on stock and work the snot out of him, and we definitely didn't ride that horse! Ok, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and we'll say you either didn't know that piece of information or didn't notice...you still suspected a problem, the dog was refusing jumps, for some reason unknown to you, and you still took him to trial, with or without a veterinarians advise. ME, I'm just not that gutsy. I want all the pieces in place before I go to trial, which would include knowing the cause of/or fixing my jumping problem. Now to answer some of the questions you posed/didn't pose.
1) The problem with using a video of a dog working (unless the problem is severe or only present during the rigors of a trial) is that they are higher than a kite and pain tolerance goes way up, making the video completely useless as a diagnostic tool.
2) I don't know anything about the quality of your x-rays or the time in the disease process they were taken, however, most people don't realize that depending of the injury type any length of time from the first set of x-rays,retakes often show changes to bone, muscle, tendon etc. that can make the diagnosis much more apparent (i.e. remodeling, calcification, deposition etc).
OR
3) If there continues to be a problem, and your regular vet is unable to make a diagnosis, ask for a referral to a specialist sooner than going to 5 vets and getting the same answer...

The real moral to this story is:
Don't post videos with a caption bragging about trialing a dog with 5 crushed vertebrae, because there are lots of us out there that just don't think that's cool, I just happen to be more vocal about it...

A Hopefully Better Educated Idiot,
Stew
Ps, I have enjoyed the training videos of your young dog
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Re: Old Warrior

Postby max orsi » Thu Dec 17, 2009 4:47 pm

"I guess this works both ways...If you are going to post videos of your dog working with the caption "FRIII Face attack with 5 crushed vertebrae" then you are going to open yourself up to question and/or ridicule"

I posted A video with that caption because I love that dog, and am very proud to own him and to have trialed him. I happen to think that he is an exceptional dog, which I have used as a "meter" to measure the performances of dogs I have owned after him and dogs that I have worked. Looking at his performance after knowing the condition he was in during the time that video was taken makes him even more exceptional.

"you still suspected a problem, the dog was refusing jumps, for some reason unknown to you, and you still took him to trial, with or without a veterinarians advise."

I suspected A problem, that is why I took him to 6 different veterinarian, 5 of them could not find anything wrong, therefore they "assumed" it was an inflamation and I believed the "Experts".

"If there continues to be a problem, and your regular vet is unable to make a diagnosis, ask for a referral to a specialist sooner than going to 5 vets and getting the same answer..."

Done just that! 5 times!

"Don't post videos with a caption bragging about trialing a dog with 5 crushed vertebrae, because there are lots of us out there that just don't think that's cool, I just happen to be more vocal about it..."

De gustibus non est disputandum, but again do not jump to conclusions without facts or evidence.
Hopefully you use better investigative techniques than you displayed here, when diagnosing your client dogs than when diagnosing my mental capacity and judgement.

I think I have done everything I was morally supposed to do to keep my dog in good health, you think you could have done better, I can live with that.

Now that we have established that you would have handle the situation better than me, let's go back to dogs.

A "posrteriori" everything is always easier.

Happy training

Max Orsi
Canem que latra non mordet
max orsi
 
Posts: 19
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Re: Old Warrior

Postby Stew » Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:29 pm

Jeez, It's been a long time since I had a chance to write Latin!
Unus res EGO nunquam operor est rudimentum ut diagnose mental concepta vel debatable censura of populus!
Or french if you prefer
Les une truc MOI jamais font c'est tenter à diagnostiquer les mental contenance ou discutable jugement de peupler!

Now back to dogs!
Stew
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Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 5:34 pm


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