AWDF

Events and results

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Re: AWDF

Postby mohawkjohn » Wed May 27, 2009 7:48 am

Thanks Clark and Chris for working my dog at the AWDF I dont have front half video but here is the back half.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9X1XKknBo1E
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Re: AWDF

Postby Danny » Wed May 27, 2009 8:51 am

mohawkjohn wrote:Thanks Clark and Chris for working my dog at the AWDF I dont have front half video but here is the back half.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9X1XKknBo1E


Hey Mohawk,

How's the diet going?
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Re: AWDF

Postby reedman222 » Wed May 27, 2009 9:14 am

Thanks to Clark and Ron for the great helper work they did in the 85 degree heat and 90% humidity weather we were having. Know that I have seen the picture of this dogs long bite, it did receive a very loud ovation from the sparse
crowd in the stands that equalled the ovations of other dogs when there was more people in the stands.
Caesar liked both the helpers and wants to take another bite on them A.S.A.P. :D :D :D

Reed
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Re: AWDF

Postby reedman222 » Wed May 27, 2009 9:58 am

Opps, sorry Chris. Brain fart.
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Re: AWDF

Postby Phil Behun » Wed May 27, 2009 11:13 am

First, I have known Clark for quite a few years now and trained with him frequently when he was in downstate Illinois. I consider Clark to be a well respected helper and a good one and also consider him to be a friend. If Clark tells me that he chose the dog objectively, I will believe him.

Secondly David, aren't you the one that posted the very tasteful cartoon of a woman performing an oral something or other on this site? And you have the stones to call me a jerk and an a'hole? Your opinion of me or dogs or of anyone else means nothing to me. Since you have decided to make this personal and not about the principal of working dogs and trial performance, you can E-mail me with more of your drivel at phil@oakspringkennels.com or better yet, call me on my cell phone 847-420-6208. I am so looking forward to further enlightenment on my character flaws.

Thirdly, isn't Dana the one who deliberately bred a known dysplastic Rotweiller? It was dysplasia wasn't it? I remember it being some congenital problem. So, to me, she's not much of a dog person either. Anyone who knowingly breeds and promotes a genetic defect in a dog doesn't really care about the animals as much as they care about their own ego and kennel blindness.
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Re: AWDF

Postby AronSchH3 » Wed May 27, 2009 11:42 am

Phil Behun wrote:Thirdly, isn't Dana the one who deliberately bred a known dysplastic Rotweiller? It was dysplasia wasn't it? I remember it being some congenital problem. So, to me, she's not much of a dog person either. Anyone who knowingly breeds and promotes a genetic defect in a dog doesn't really care about the animals as much as they care about their own ego and kennel blindness.


Phil, you will have to go back to that thread to catch up but here's the cliff notes. The dog had Grade 1 DJD in one elbow. I posted her xrays. 2 vets said the elbow looked good including the most respected vet for Hips/Elbows in the area. More than 50% of the Rottweilers are coming back with Grade 1 elbow and at the time her xrays were done, OFA said that Elbows were so new that it was not a tool to be making breeding decisions off of. They didn't have any elbows to compare to. But considering she has a laundry list of titles after her name, including passing a BST which few Rottweilers do before being bred, and can still do French Ring Jumps at 5 1/2 years old ...I took a chance. Kennel blindness? Yes I must be all about pumping out puppies..... Her resulting puppy (she had 4, I kept one and another on co-ownership) we call Spiderman but it must be because of all that dysplasia. We also call him my $5000 puppy because it took so much to make that breeding actually happen and I lost money on it at every possible turn.

And as you brought up.... if you want to make this personal, call me anytime. You will find I am one of the most ethical people when it comes to my dogs and their breeding. I made my choice for very specific reasons and it took me several years to decide to breed my bitch. I am not making any personal attacks on you, just pointing out exactly what Clark pointed out. Your responses kind of speak to your own character.
- Dana -
And the Malinois ...
-Malachai du Ciel Rouge
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Re: AWDF

Postby Phil Behun » Wed May 27, 2009 6:37 pm

My responses? You called me an internet critic, did you not? To me, that basically means that my opinion is based on no trial/helper/decoy/handler/trainer experience. I simply stated where my views/experiences are based. Did I call anyone names or spew personal insults? Please refresh my memory, I don't believe I did, so I'm not quite getting what you mean by me being of suspect character.

My initial point and questions still stand un-answered, is the dog's grip short on the right side and, has he not gripped off center and towards the handle? Please answer and tell me what you see.
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Re: AWDF

Postby Mike B » Wed May 27, 2009 7:59 pm

Here you go Mohawk.....Jack's front half. One of my favorite dogs to watch!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BedhNXaQJLM
NEVER FORGET!
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Re: AWDF

Postby AronSchH3 » Thu May 28, 2009 2:28 pm

Phil Behun wrote:My responses? You called me an internet critic, did you not? To me, that basically means that my opinion is based on no trial/helper/decoy/handler/trainer experience. I simply stated where my views/experiences are based. Did I call anyone names or spew personal insults? Please refresh my memory, I don't believe I did, so I'm not quite getting what you mean by me being of suspect character.

My initial point and questions still stand un-answered, is the dog's grip short on the right side and, has he not gripped off center and towards the handle? Please answer and tell me what you see.



I called you an internet critic because you are criticizing a dogs performance based on a single video, not from actually being at the event or being the person behind the sleeve catching the dog. It has nothing to do with what you have or haven't done in dogs. You made your own interpretations.

The personal insults were digs about my ethics in breeding my dog. Here's your memory refresher:

"So, to me, she's not much of a dog person either. Anyone who knowingly breeds and promotes a genetic defect in a dog doesn't really care about the animals as much as they care about their own ego and kennel blindness."


As far as the dogs grip quality, I don't believe helpers choice should equate to grip quality or points. That's up to the judge to account for. And I wouldn't want to comment on something based on a video or photograph.
- Dana -
And the Malinois ...
-Malachai du Ciel Rouge
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Re: AWDF

Postby Gunny » Thu May 28, 2009 8:08 pm

Dana does have a point about taking something from a picture. I remember a picture of herding where it looks as if the sheep is trying to flee by climbing a fence from a herding dog....Phil, You were very vocal about how a picture can be very misleading.
Temple of the Tree's Aderes (Addie) SchH3. HOT
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Re: AWDF

Postby Phil Behun » Thu May 28, 2009 8:13 pm

See, I can tell a lot from a picture or a video. I saw it in the video right away without even rewinding and watching a second time. That's why when the still photo was posted I said, "proves my point", you can see short on the right and gripping by the handle. My original point has still gone unanswered. If someone wants to tell me that this is a "helper's choice" kind of dog fine, however, there is no hiding what it is. Again, I ask, what do you see in the video and the still shot? I'm not here to argue about personality differences, if this is the kind of gripping behavior that you like or in this case the helpers liked, fine but it's not good enough for me.

I want to know on a consistent basis what judges are looking for so I can train for that exercise. If I see slow under motivated retrieves like I witnessed at the WUSV, fine, but that's not good enough for me. But, if judges are putting slow mouthy retrieves into "V", then I know all I have to teach are slow, sloppy, mouthy retrieves. Would I? Probably not. Would I be on the field with a dog that doesn't grip? No, and I would expect that anyone trying to reach the upper echelon of the sport would strive for the same.

Please explain what you see in both the video and camera shot? It seems that you are avoiding my original point. I didn't start this discussion with the premise of personnal attack, I simply stated fact. This was not a club event, it was a National Championship, points are tight. If this is the supreme (In my mind that would be my definition of "helper's choice", the best bite dog of the National Championship) bite performance dog of the event, should it not be the best gripping dog and not the best secondary obedience dog or best looking or smallest or tallest or bustiest handler or blah, blah, blah?
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Re: AWDF

Postby Michelle Testa » Thu May 28, 2009 9:57 pm

Hi Phil,
Hey you bring up some interesting points.
I thought that Clark and Chris IMO get to pick who they liked. It is to be their call and thier reasons could be many.
I thought "Head" was a fun dog to watch maybe to them he was a joy to work.. or just plain fun for them. I don't think there is anything wrong with these 2 decoys having fun working a dog and picking a specific dog that they enjoyed. I'm know they had a ton of hard work dealing with all the dogs in the event and both did a fine job. What ever the reason Clark and Chris picked Ron's dog for the award it is thier choice only and that little Pit certianly touched a cord with alot of people.
There were alot of nice performances even from the dogs that didn't pass all 3 phases.
Kind regards,
Michelle Testa
& Enya the Lil' RS that Dq'd too
Michelle
&
The River Cottage Crew
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Re: AWDF

Postby Christopher Smith » Fri May 29, 2009 9:11 am

Phil Behun wrote:
Please explain what you see in both the video and camera shot?


The helpers that made their choice.
"Honesty is never seen sitting astride the fence."
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Re: AWDF

Postby Phil Behun » Fri May 29, 2009 10:17 am

Apathy and PC are what's making our country strong.
Phil Behun
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Re: AWDF

Postby Christopher Smith » Fri May 29, 2009 3:11 pm

Damn Chris and Clark!!!! They are screwing up the whole country by liking a dog. Why won't they use their super powers for good?

Phil you must use your super power of endless anger to thwart and negate this duo. It’s your duty to the country; if not mankind.

Godspeed.
"Honesty is never seen sitting astride the fence."
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