AWDF/FCI team

Events and results

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Postby Mike Baker » Fri Jul 13, 2007 5:11 pm

I'll asure you Danny that 99% of the things you mentioned above NEVER happened.

I was with the dog and handler during this "so called" bark and hold and it never happened. This is why many of these things are not dicussed too often to the liking of some because there is nothing to talk about. I am personally offended at the fact that people have to continue to spread stories/gossip/lies about things that they have NO CLUE about.

Gunny if the punishment for stealing a piece of candy by a 5 year old was cutting off his hand would you have a problem? Same thing here...punishment doesn't fit the crime. I've seen judges punched in the face with less punishment to the attacker.

Your right Danny when a few owners are irresponsible we all suffer, but irresponisbility doesn't stop at the forementioned action. I find "hear say" as a pre-cursor for your argument quite irresponsible. You know I was just talking to a Dobie, Rott, and GSD owner that said Malinois people are the BEST!
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Postby Danny » Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:11 pm

Mike Baker wrote:I'll asure you Danny that 99% of the things you mentioned above NEVER happened.

I was with the dog and handler during this "so called" bark and hold and it never happened. This is why many of these things are not dicussed too often to the liking of some because there is nothing to talk about. I am personally offended at the fact that people have to continue to spread stories/gossip/lies about things that they have NO CLUE about.

Gunny if the punishment for stealing a piece of candy by a 5 year old was cutting off his hand would you have a problem? Same thing here...punishment doesn't fit the crime. I've seen judges punched in the face with less punishment to the attacker.

Your right Danny when a few owners are irresponsible we all suffer, but irresponisbility doesn't stop at the forementioned action. I find "hear say" as a pre-cursor for your argument quite irresponsible. You know I was just talking to a Dobie, Rott, and GSD owner that said Malinois people are the BEST!
Keep your head in the sand Mike. I guess everyone is just making things up about us poor, persecuted Malinois owners. I suppose none of us ever gets drunk in public and then works our dogs - even if there is video of it posted. Basically if you think drinking and dog sport go together at the same time, then you're the type of person that causes our entire organization to be looked down upon. If you think it's funny to make your dog drink tequila, then you're part of the problem. If you think your dog is something to f*ck around with for your and your friend's entertainment, then you belong back in middle school. Let's see what my dog does after I blow this bong hit down his nose. Ha, ha, ha. This is great fun! I suppose you know all about the working dog community in San Diego too.

However, I did misspeak. The hold and bark and hotel lobby embarrassment occurred at the Mali Nationals in Washington.

And we just had a club trial where the same boorish behavior was occurring. It really is a shame when club members are bugging me while I'm trialing to tell me that the Malinois group that is visiting is going on an alcohol run so they can drink while they watch the trial. No matter that we could lose the field that we've had for 8 years because of the presence of alcohol. That really sets a great example. And - for what it's worth - saying unkind and impolite things about dogs that are trialing that can be heard by everyone in the crowd is uncool. Even if the dog is the worst dog in the history of the world!

Finally, are you equating Marina to a 5 year old? How do you know if the punishment does not fit the crime? Are you now the official crime/punisher measurer? I thought 'W' was the decider. Go back to listening to your AM radio claptrap where you hear phrases like 'the punishment does not fit the crime,' and then drive around mouthing them. “Stay the course!" Brother….. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby Danny » Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:13 pm

Christopher Smith wrote:Once again I’m in complete agreement.

Between you guys going with more aggression in protection and the stuff said on this thread we won’t have much to argue about over drinks at The National. :lol:
Oh, I'm sure we'll find something. :lol:
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Postby mohawkjohn » Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:46 pm

Anyways back to the topic congratulations to the 2007 F.C.I. world team good luck!
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Postby Danny » Fri Jul 13, 2007 9:05 pm

mohawkjohn wrote:Anyways back to the topic congratulations to the 2007 F.C.I. world team good luck!

Here, here! :wink:
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Postby Mike Baker » Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:00 pm

However, I did misspeak.


Thank you. Don't mistake head in the sand for being respectful Danny. It's a shame how wrong you have me pegged :oops: I'm sure if Clinton or Bush would have anything to do with this they would have pardoned the girl long ago, but hey.. don't let my 'moderate' 'independent' mind scare you. AM radio claptrap? C'mon how dare you? I give NPR and Air America just as much listening time :P :wink:

saying unkind and impolite things about dogs that are trialing that can be heard by everyone in the crowd is uncool. Even if the dog is the worst dog in the history of the world!


I couldn't agree more! Years of hanging around the Kiewels was very much like what you mentioned above.

I will cheers your "hear, hear" however!
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Postby cele danner » Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:05 am

Mike - Let's not get so full of indignation hey? You are a member of the AWMA executive board. You were well aware when Marina was verbally chastised by the AWDF president for her behavior and warned to not let her dog loose again - which she promised she wouldn't do.
You then watched her let her dog loose again and said nothing. So possibly instead of letting everyone know what a bunch of nazi's the awdf board is and how much pleasure we seem to derive cutting the hands off 5 years olds for stealiing candy - you should wonder what the situation would be today if you had stepped up as marina's friend and a member of the board and advised her to put that leash back on her dog. cele
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Postby Mike Baker » Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:17 am

Thanks Cele, The analogy was meant more for Gunny as oppose to the AWDF Board and I was calling out Muslim Wahhabi extremist in the analogy, not Nazi's and I never once said anyone was getting pleasure from it. Also I was calling out Danny's statement which he corrected his application of words. Your right Al did do that, and I agreed with it. Again, the rumor mill spread at that trial as fast as a California wild fire and you were not the 3rd person in the hallway that night either (which took place before the incident on the field which she was properly disciplined for.)

Thanks, place all the blame on me...that's nice and very conscious of the facts Cele. I never reduced my responsibility once or made an excuse for myself not saying something and you know that. I was very careful in the words I chose above, maybe you should have done the same.
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Postby Danny » Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:56 am

Mike Baker wrote:I'm sure if Clinton or Bush would have anything to do with this they would have pardoned the girl long ago,
Good point! :lol: I've never had the pleasure of meeting Marina so I'm not sure how her last name is pronounced. Is it 'Scooo'? I'm tempted to add a 'ter'. :lol:
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Postby Gunny » Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:17 pm

Mike Baker wrote:I'll asure you Danny that 99% of the things you mentioned above NEVER happened.

I was with the dog and handler during this "so called" bark and hold and it never happened. This is why many of these things are not dicussed too often to the liking of some because there is nothing to talk about. I am personally offended at the fact that people have to continue to spread stories/gossip/lies about things that they have NO CLUE about.

Gunny if the punishment for stealing a piece of candy by a 5 year old was cutting off his hand would you have a problem? Same thing here...punishment doesn't fit the crime. I've seen judges punched in the face with less punishment to the attacker.

Your right Danny when a few owners are irresponsible we all suffer, but irresponisbility doesn't stop at the forementioned action. I find "hear say" as a pre-cursor for your argument quite irresponsible. You know I was just talking to a Dobie, Rott, and GSD owner that said Malinois people are the BEST!



Mike,

to conclude that others have wronged us and the world is unfair is as far as most of us ever get......

The world is unfair, The world is harsh.

But we do have a great amount control on our own destiny.

And when the world is harsh and unfair... Did we not set the ball rolling ourselves?

Sometimes when we get our hands chopped off....we have to remember that we are not 5 years old, and we did steal.
Temple of the Tree's Aderes (Addie) SchH3. HOT
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Postby Gunny » Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:39 pm

And this is for Chris....

Are we still having the Battle of the Babies?

If we are....11 months....swimming...underwater!

I let you know if I stop him from eating sand though.
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Postby Mike Baker » Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:39 am

Your right Gunny.
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Come on folks

Postby TamiS » Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:33 am

I was present when the first incident took place regarding Marina and her dog, Simba. While excellent contenders, this dog/handler team shows extremely poor judgement in not one, but TWO incidents after being pulled aside by the board of the AWDF.

Having fun and partying is fine. It's a free country, but remember that as a board member you represent the club and the breed. A board member of AWMA making a bad judgement call in allowing her dog to run off leash and attacking another is a stupid mistake. A board member being warned after the fact, then allowing another incident to take place yet again on the same weekend shows extremely bad judgment.

I think Marina is a sweet gal, Simba a very cool dog, and together they are strong contenders. However, let's not be blinded and allow behavior on the part of competitors (and in this case a double whammy as a board member of the club), and our small, closely knit mal community where most of us are friends, cloud the direction we should take the club in presenting ourselves as a club to be taken seriously.

I believe that the ONE YEAR probation is appropriate. Glenn was mistaken from what I understand in that the probation was one year, not three.

Lastly, while I will not win any popularity contests by voicing my opinoin on this one, I feel it needs to be said that our board should try to find that balance between backing our members and standing behind the breed while maintaining an element of fairness. From what I witnessed at the AWDF, perhaps if the AWMA would have taken the bull by the horns and reprimanded Marina appropriately perhaps it would have shown the AWDF that that we take such misconduct seriously. Heck, Ivan was going to be chastised for a frisbee in his pocket. I think that a year probation for a dog attack and second off leash confrontation after being warned by the board of AWDF is a heck of an easy reprimand.

In short, it's pretty clear from the outside looking in (and yes, I WAS one of only TWO people who witnessed the first incident): it's a small malinois club and it's extremely difficult to walk the fine line of being objective and maintaining friendships within our club. I do not envy the position of the board members and one reason I am taking a big break from being a board member myself. As I am sure the board members are experiencing, it's much tougher to a friend and a disciplinarian and I think on this case the board of AWMA is erring on the part of being friend when they should be disciplinarian.

In a year Marina and Simba will be back on the field kicking butt and find that fine line between having a good time and being responsible. I am sure she has learned alot from this particular incident and the ramnifications associated with the err in judgement.

Board members buck up and quit whining....they got off lucky. The punishment fit the crime (or was actually easier than what I would have dished out) and we need to move on, support Marina, support the board of AWDF for making a tough ruling, and learn from past mistakes. Next year Marina and Simba will be back stronger than ever, and the career of the dog is not being jeapordized.

Just my two cents!

Tami
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Postby annecamper » Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:43 am

There is a phone call with the AWDF general board on Tuesday night where this issue will be discussed. I wil give a synopsis of that call as soon as I can get something written and posted.

In case is it wasn't clear previously, there was a majority of the executive board of the AWMA present at the AWDF competition. We met after the finding of the grievance committee and decided that there would be no further disciplinary action because the findings of that committee were suffcient.

Anne
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Re: Come on folks

Postby David Feliciano » Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:33 pm

TamiS wrote:ILastly, while I will not win any popularity contests by voicing my opinoin on this one, I feel it needs to be said that our board should try to find that balance between backing our members and standing behind the breed while maintaining an element of fairness. From what I witnessed at the AWDF, perhaps if the AWMA would have taken the bull by the horns and reprimanded Marina appropriately perhaps it would have shown the AWDF that that we take such misconduct seriously. Heck, Ivan was going to be chastised for a frisbee in his pocket. I think that a year probation for a dog attack and second off leash confrontation after being warned by the board of AWDF is a heck of an easy reprimand.

Tami


Marina did not do anything that is in violation of the AWMA bylaws, so why or better yet how could the AWMA board reprimand Marina while going through the proper channels?

Ivan was not chastised for a "frisbee in his pocket". Ivan's unsportsmanlike conduct was in clear violation of the AWDF rules. It was not the place of the AWMA to reprimand Ivan for breaking AWDF's rules. This is how I feel the AWMA has and should handle this situation with Marina.

The real issue here is that the AWDF has not gone through proper channels within their own organization in suspending Marina for three years.
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